Episode 163: Concrete Botany: Reconnecting with the Living World in the Age of Disturbance with Joey Santore
In this episode, Tad Hussey sits down with Joey Santore, the self-taught botanist and former railroad engineer behind the cult-favorite YouTube channel and podcast, Crime Pays But Botany Doesn’t. Joey shares his journey from "slamming rail cars" for 15 years to becoming one of the most distinctive voices in ecology today.
The conversation dives deep into the "anthropocentric" way we view nature—asking what a plant can do for us rather than learning its unique story—and rants against the "horticultural atrocities" of modern landscaping. From the evolution of "edaphic endemics" on stressful soils to the mental health crisis caused by our "concrete cages," Joey makes a passionate case for looking past the human world and reconnecting with the "living machine" that holds up the entire terrestrial biosphere.
Key Takeaways & Discussion Highlights
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The Railroad Roots: Joey’s transition from a Union Pacific engineer to a "vigilante botanist." He discusses the influence of Carl Sagan’s The Demon-Haunted World and using science as a "candle in the dark" in a consumerist society.
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Botany for the "Jaded Working Class": Why academic botany often fails to connect with the public and why Joey targets the "cynical, maladjusted stiff" who needs the living world the most.
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Horticultural Atrocities: A critique of "horticultural fluff"—boxwoods, crepe myrtles, and cloned cultivars that offer no ecological value. Joey explains why he’d rather see a lawn than a line of "garbage" cultivars.
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The Concrete Cage & Mental Health: How our disconnection from the land and our "unwalkable sprawling excerpts" contribute to a massive mental health crisis.
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The Field Record: Joey’s process in the wild—using iNaturalist, herbarium vouchers, and photography to document the "living machine."
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Geology & Evolution: An exploration of edaphic endemics (plants that grow only on specific soils like serpentine or gypsum) and how stressful geology creates new species.
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Disturbance Ecology: Why "weeds" are actually pioneer species and how disturbance—when understood correctly—is the engine that enables diversity.
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Beyond "Is it Edible?": Why the question "Can I eat it?" is the most common and least interesting way to interact with a plant.
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Concrete Botany: A preview of Joey’s new book and his fascination with "unintentional ecology" in neglected urban spaces like railroad tracks and abandoned warehouses.
Resources Mentioned
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Book: Concrete Botany: The Ecology of Plants in the Age of Human Disturbance (Released April 2026)
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YouTube/Podcast: Crime Pays But Botany Doesn’t
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App: iNaturalist (Joey’s primary tool for citizen science)
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Literature: The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan
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Project: Thornscrub Sanctuary (South Texas conservation)
